After what felt like a lifetime, the fourth season of Stranger Things is now within the books. Split into two elements, which included a number of feature-length episodes, the season noticed the children from Hawkins and past pushed to their limits in opposition to a terrifying new villain who, really, isn’t that new in any respect.

Volume two was launched over the weekend, bringing the season to an in depth, so io9’s Germain Lussier, Sabina Graves, and Rob Bricken sat down to debate our ideas: what we preferred, what we didn’t, questions we’ve, solutions we guess on, and our ideas going into what we all know would be the fifth and last season.

Full spoilers observe so beware.

Germain Lussier: Hello all and welcome to io9’s spoiler-filled roundtable dialogue of Stranger Things 4 Vol. 2, which actually means all of Stranger Things 4. The last two episodes of the season dropped this weekend and…

Rob Bricken: Aka the quick film and the lengthy film.

Germain: Yes, sure, we’ll get to that, Rob. But for now, please, I’d love to listen to what each of you felt general, largely about volume two, but additionally the season as a complete.

Rob: I actually preferred each, to my shock. I used to be lukewarm when Stranger Things season 4 arrived, however my curiosity saved rising till I used to be actually excited for the ultimate two episodes, which I actually loved too.

Sabina Graves: To me, volume one was extra strong, I actually loved the build-up and divulge to Vecna being 001. Volume two didn’t fairly work for me as two films. Episode seven and episode 9 had been the most effective of the movie-length episodes. I assumed episode eight kinda dragged.

Germain: I feel I fell someplace within the center. While I loved volume two, I largely assume that was simply because I like these characters and all of the stakes the Duffer Brothers arrange in volume one. But however, to me, they arrange SO MUCH that I didn’t precisely really feel prefer it all got here collectively in fairly the correct, satisfying method. Almost like season 4 was its personal volume one to season 5, which has by no means been the case actually with Stranger Things.

Rob: True, nevertheless it’s fairly regular for a season finale main right into a last season, methinks. Gotta have that Empire Strikes Back unhealthy stuff to finish the story on, so the stakes are extra dire than ever when the characters return.

Germain: Right, I completely get that, however for instance, what did the Russia part actually add? Wasn’t it slightly little bit of a cheat to do that entire “Piggyback” factor? Almost like they moved the characters too far-off geographically? It labored however simply didn’t fairly match for me. Sabina?

Sabina: I agree in regards to the Russian part, it felt pointless and I’m uninterested in seeing David Harbour escape from snowy Russian prisons. Definitely felt just like the angle was “we need to make sure the kids are unsupervised so let’s make Joyce go against her protective mother instinct to go after her man.” Which I wasn’t a fan of.

Rob: I blame the pandemic and solid schedules, but additionally all of them felt like viable storylines to me. Yeah, the Russia stuff was extraneous, however the one cause the Mike and Will stuff wasn’t insanely extraneous is as a result of they discovered Eleven proper there on the finish. The truth that each one “Teams” had one thing to do this had them really taking part within the last battle with the others was very satisfying, though I do know it’s additionally a little bit of a cheat. However, this may make it all of the extra satisfying when the Justice League absolutely reunites to take down Vecna within the sequence finale.

Sabina: I’m so glad everyone seems to be again in Hawkins.

Germain: Yes, that season 5 appears to be going again to its season-one, everyone-together-in-Hawkins roots, is superb. So what had been your favourite and least favourite moments of volume two? Or if not “moments,” then simply general normal issues? For me, I feel my least favourite was sort of what I mentioned earlier than, simply a lot occurring ultimately and the timing didn’t all fairly match up (how lengthy had been Steve, Nancy, and Robin in these vines?) But I additionally preferred the bromance between Dustin and Eddie. Really gritty, emotional, and enjoyable, even when their function wasn’t tremendous essential.

Rob: It’s tougher for me to recollect volume one since I simply noticed volume two final evening. But I completely beloved every part about Eddie Munson. Everything. Everything.

Sabina: I had Eddie all improper, completely thought he was in league with Vecna however genuinely grew to understand him as a misunderstood fella and beloved his arc. The Duffers all the time make a season standout character who dies and it’s crushing each time.

Rob: He was an important character who shocked me by being a nerd but additionally a steel head but additionally a extremely good man—subverting all kinds of tropes I’ve had paraded in entrance of my in popular culture for many years.

And truthfully? The last episode might have been two hours and 16 minutes of the Duffer brothers selecting their noses on digital camera and 4 minutes of Eddie taking part in “Master of Puppets” amid a twister of demobats and I’m fairly certain I’d have given it 5 stars.

Germain: Oh, yeah I imply, Eddie for season 4 MVP all day. Sort of like Sean Astin’s Bob in season two. Are we okay that he’s gone, although? We did get that nice, nice second with Dustin and his uncle.

Rob: As a lot as I’ll miss him, I’m effective with that. He was new for season 4, which meant his dying protected the primary characters from the Duffers feeling a must kill one among them. Also, he couldn’t have died a greater dying. And all scenes with Dustin—and Dustin and Eddie’s father, as you mentioned—had been fantastic.

Sabina: Barb, Bob, Billy, and now Eddie. Ahhhh! I hope it’s not the final we see of Eddie but additionally don’t need him to be an evil avatar of any kind.

Germain: At least they lastly modified the primary letter of the useless character. What about Max although, talking of “Dead” characters. Obviously, she has to return again, proper?… Right?

Rob: For certain. No query. They would have simply made her die now for max emotional affect in the event that they had been going to kill her off.

Sabina: I used to be positively shocked on the brutality and at how the Piggyback didn’t totally work. It crushed Eleven and gave her a defeat that actually shook her in not with the ability to defend somebody she loves. It was superior to see her and Max’s storylines meet so it constructed to an earned sacrifice. I truthfully thought at one level Jason, the dime-store Gaston, was going to be Vecna’s plan B after I thought Max and Eleven had been going to achieve success.

Germain: Yes, nice level. I beloved the way it went again to Eleven and Max’s friendship in such a pleasant method. I nearly forgot how essential that was to each characters in earlier seasons. Speaking of Eleven, let’s discuss in regards to the Piggyback. Not the logistics of it per se however simply the way it matches in with the present and the very attention-grabbing dynamics between Will, Mike, and Jonathan. I want all of them had extra to do apart from simply watching Eleven however I assumed that backwards and forwards between the three of them was dynamite, albeit it slightly quick.

Rob: They had been all of the weakest storyline, particularly Jonathan. Honesty, neither Jonathan nor Argyle wanted to be within the season apart from for Jonathan’s actually candy speech to Will and Argyle’s potential to get right into a pizza joint for Eleven’s impromptu isolation tank. You might name Argyle… Chekhov’s Joint-Smoking Gun.

Sabina: Hahahaha.

Germain: The “Comic Relief” for certain, which was massive within the Eighties. But severely, what can we take into consideration Will and Mike’s relationship? Will loves Mike, sure? And Jonathan is aware of it? I learn some individuals who didn’t get that however to me, it was very clear and highly effective.

Rob: Yes and yes. I’m not shocked to listen to some folks didn’t get that nevertheless it was apparent as hell. With the caveat that I’m a cisgender white male, I preferred the scene, and I appreciated that Will (the character) by no means felt like he may very well be sincere about his reality with Mike, which was an sadly very actual state of affairs within the ‘80s (and beyond). He clearly hasn’t accepted himself, which is why he hides it, which makes Jonathan’s actually candy speech to him on the finish even higher, I feel Will could nicely come extra into his personal in season 5 because of that second.

Sabina: That was truthfully essentially the most standout scene for me too and glad it gave Noah Schnapp and Charlie Heaton a second to shine. Vaguely redeemed Jonathan for me a minimum of in being there for his brother and never like excessive on a regular basis and letting Will and Mike dictate what to do. But with reference to his and Nancy’s storyline? Oof. Steve’s grown up and Jonathan’s leaned into being a burnout. Maybe the occasions that simply occurred will inspire him to determine his shit out. I’m invested on this love triangle once more.

Germain: Right. All like to Heaton in that scene however severely, why is Nancy with Jonathan? Like, come on now. But talking of issues I’ve questions on, I need to circle again and indulge myself a bit. What, in your minds, did the Russian jail scenes do precisely? Did the adults killing the Demogorgons really damage Vecna? Was that why the bats dropped? It was unclear to me and, possibly, a few of our readers.

Rob: They did damage Vecna within the sense that the present instructed us they might. Since these scenes had been montaged with the opposite people kicking Vecna’s ass, I’m effective with believing they did. Like I mentioned, I feel the present did an important job of managing to tie the storylines collectively for the climax regardless of being to date aside geographically.

But I feel possibly the bats dropped when Vecna dropped? Like they’re all related, however Vecna’s the kingpin, so when Vecna begins getting Kentucky Fried he has to withdraw his energy from his exterior forces to reconsolidate himself.

Sabina: I simply needed to get again to Hawkins and extra with the house group. But did like seeing among the motion in opposition to the Demogorgon and Demodogs.

Rob: I ought to say Hopper deciding to take out a Demogorgon with a sword is so goddamned silly and tacky and nonsensical and it was fully superior and I beloved it.

Sabina: That was wild and steel.

Germain: Yeah the Conan sword magically being left there from the weapons cache was cute. Obvious, however cute. Like how Eddie wears the Michael Myers masks at one level after which Vecna pulls a Michael Myers, falling out the window after which disappearing. I used to be shocked the Duffers didn’t use the John Carpenter theme in that second.

Rob: Well, everyone knows the Duffers are masters of restraint. (pointedly ignores the ultimate episode’s runtime)

Germain: Okay okay, as we wrap it up, let’s speak about that. Were these episodes, and most particularly episode 9, too lengthy? Would you may have most popular it as two or three episodes damaged up? Personally, I did just like the propulsive nature of creating all of it one, cohesive episode since a lot was occurring however I needed to plan to observe it like a film, not a easy episode of tv.

Sabina: Some of the pacing felt like lots of filler and undid some massive moments for me. Specifically, Eleven taking her company again from Papa. It was tremendous impactful however was kind of undermined by dragging it out with obstacles to delay her escape. Everything in Hawkins was strong and will have been the main focus of their very own episodes with the plan Max, Nancy, Steve, Robin, Dustin, Lucas, Eddie, and Erica set into movement. The city felt prefer it ended up getting misplaced within the background until the very finish.

Germain: Yes, I’m with you that the Hawkins stuff—the grasp plan—was actually the spotlight and did, at occasions, get slightly left within the mud. Or vines. Rob?

Rob: All jokes apart, I ended up considering it was effective. It by no means flagged for me. I used to be even searching for locations that will make a pure level to finish an episode and start a brand new one, as a result of the Duffers mentioned that they had tried to determine one out and couldn’t. And I couldn’t both. It all labored rather well collectively.

Germain: There are literal cuts to black a couple of factors within the episode. I mentioned “There’s a break” a couple of occasions.

Rob: But these felt like area for a industrial break, not a “Come back next week!” break. I truthfully don’t assume you may cut up the three-probing assault on Vecna into two episodes, and in the event you separated the epilogue from the motion, it might really feel extraordinarily boring compared to what’s come earlier than. I feel you want the narrative momentum from the combat to hold you thru to the tip.

Germain: Okay, truthful. Last factor. The Upside Down and Hawkins have merged on the finish of volume two. Everyone is again collectively. What are your emotions going into season 5? Can the ending be higher than this once we’re inevitably simply going to finish up with Eleven vs. Vecna once more?

Rob: I like the season 4 ending and I’m trying ahead to season 5 greater than I used to be three and 4. My hope, nonetheless, is that it may be one other group combat in opposition to Vecna as a substitute of being a mere One/Eleven showdown.

Sabina: I hope the Piggyback leads to Max coming again with powers.

Germain: Whoa! I like that concept. Never thought of that.

Rob: I used to be considering that very same factor, Sabina. Or possibly, as a result of they’ve all handled the Upside Down for thus lengthy, they all get psychic powers to various levels and whoop-ass.

Sabina: YES! Now I hope somebody remembers to interchange Max’s tape deck and Kate Bush cassette and put some earphones on her STAT.

Rob: Full disclosure: If I had a Walkman that solely performed “Running Up That Hill,” I’d ask Vecna to place me out of my distress. Not to begrudge anybody who likes it.

Germain: No shock it was the season’s worst character that broke the Walkman. Dude almost broke the present and I’m glad he’s useless. Was that an excessive amount of?

Sabina: I assumed his dying was too simple on him.

Rob: I’m glad’s useless as a result of this was essentially the most nugatory subplot. I used to be excited in regards to the present doing a “Satanic Panic” storyline however the one one who ended up panicked was the top jock and that was due to his girlfriend, not the rest. And that character solely existed to screw issues up in the course of the last assault on Vecna. Call him… Chekhov’s Smoking Jock Holding Chekhov’s Smoking Gun.

Germain: Haha. I’m glad we agree on that however now I can’t in good thoughts finish this dialogue on that man. Final ideas on what you liked or what to say now that Stranger Things 4 is over.

Rob: HOPPER AND JOYCE FINALLY KISSED. THIS IS A GOOD THING. It’s bizarre it lastly occurred within the USSR, however I’ll take it.

Sabina: I’m each relieved and nervous that Steve has made it out alive to date. At this level, whether or not he will get the woman or not I hope he lives to have his six children they usually have a cool aunt Robin (additionally alive).

Germain: God, I like Steve and Robin. They’re the most effective. And let’s simply hope that no matter occurs, we see it in much less time than it took for this season to return out. Two years!

Robert Bricken: Guys, if Steve has six children in lower than two years he’ll have a lot greater issues than Vecna.

Stranger Things Vol. 4 is now streaming on Netflix.

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