Spotify’s Joe Rogan Saga Spotlights Podcast Moderation Challenges

At an advert business convention in New York this month, one of many key architects of Spotify’s podcasting technique outlined what she noticed as the most important problem going through platforms: find out how to average content material.

Chief Content Officer Dawn Ostroff, the tv veteran who had helped convey US podcaster Joe Rogan and different high expertise to Spotify, had been requested concerning the backlash to COVID-19 misinformation unfold on his podcast as Neil Young and different artists yanked their music in protest. She stated corporations confronted a “dilemma of moderation versus censorship” and there was “no silver bullet.”

Content moderation has been a thorny problem for on-line platforms. While social media corporations like Meta’s Facebook and Twitter have confronted strain to be extra clear over moderation and ramp up funding in human and synthetic intelligence assessment programs, podcasting has usually flown below the radar.

The backlash over “The Joe Rogan Experience” which Spotify licensed in a greater than $100 million (roughly Rs. 750 crore) unique deal in 2020, heightens scrutiny on Spotify’s general method to moderation because it evolves from a music streaming service to a podcast big and investor in authentic content material, business professionals and researchers stated.

It additionally turns the highlight on the podcast business’s traditionally hands-off method to moderation, partly a results of its open and fragmented nature.

Different podcasts are hosted by numerous platforms and despatched by means of RSS feeds or companies to listing apps like Apple Podcasts or Spotify which catalog reveals for listeners. The sheer quantity of fabric – thousands and thousands of podcasts and hours-long episodes – and technical challenges of transcribing and analysing audio make moderating even harder.

Spotify first added podcasts in 2015 and made a significant push into the medium from 2019, shopping for podcast networks Gimlet and Anchor and spending tons of of thousands and thousands on unique content material offers with celebrities like Kim Kardashian and former US President Barack Obama.

Only final month, as its podcast library swelled to three.6 million, did Spotify publish its platform guidelines in full on-line, in response to the Rogan controversy. The insurance policies have been actively enforced for years, and over 20,000 episodes have been eliminated for COVID-19 misinformation in the course of the pandemic, it stated.

Unlike Facebook or Twitter, Spotify doesn’t subject transparency experiences that might supply public accounting of content material elimination. A Spotify spokesman stated it was working towards this purpose.

Spotify Chief Executive Daniel Ek lately instructed buyers he knew its podcasting technique would “test our teams in new ways.” He stated it was “implementing several first-of-its-kind measures to help combat misinformation and provide greater transparency.”

Moderating audio usually includes changing it to textual content and utilizing automated instruments to filter content material or establish moments for human assessment, however it’s time-intensive and inexact, consultants stated. The nuances of audio system’ tones, evolving phrases and slang throughout languages, and the necessity to contextualize inside longer discussions all contribute to the complexity.

Audio moderation is “a perfect storm,” stated Mark Little, co-founder of Kinzen, a agency contracted by Spotify to alert it to brewing issues regarding election integrity, misinformation and hate speech throughout platforms.

“You’re faced with something that is uniquely complex, having this volume …, having a format that defies the kind of textual analysis that we’ve relied upon in the past.”

In a February 2 Reuters interview, Ek known as Spotify’s international content material moderation group a “very big operation.” But he and a spokesman declined to quantify its funding in content material moderation, what number of staff work on platform security, or say what applied sciences it makes use of.

Spotify makes use of third-party reviewers to assist establish dangerous content material. Its content material group will get recommendation from a dozen companions with experience in hate speech, harassment, youngster exploitation, extremism and misinformation, the spokesman stated.

These consultants, most of whom Spotify declined to call, present its in-house group – which makes all content material moderation choices – with insights, alert it to potential risks and assist it detect abuse.

Spotify added 1.2 million podcasts to its catalog final 12 months alone. As the content material obtainable on high platforms swells and new present offers are inked, extra strong moderation needs to be inbuilt, some business consultants argued.

“I’m really hesitant to just fall back on ‘it’s hard,’ because we know it’s hard. Is it as hard as creating a multi-billion-dollar, multinational organization that basically is … the go-to audio app?” stated Owen Grover, former CEO of podcast app Pocket Casts.

Web of companies

The Rogan saga each raises questions on Spotify’s duties when it completely licenses reveals, and concerning the broader problem moderation poses for the podcasting business.

Podcasts are usually uploaded to internet hosting platforms and distributed to listing apps like Apple or Google Podcasts or Amazon Music by way of RSS feeds or the internet hosting companies.

The patchwork nature of internet hosting websites and listing apps dilutes accountability and makes for spotty enforcement on non-exclusive podcasts, business consultants stated. Spotify, for instance, doesn’t host podcasts, although it owns internet hosting platforms like Anchor, residence of Rogan’s podcast, and Megaphone.

Podcasts not hosted by a Spotify-owned platform submit reveals to Spotify for assessment earlier than their launch on the app. But “a lot of people don’t even realise how simple it is to get something through on Spotify or Apple,” stated Nick Hilton, who runs Podot, a UK-based impartial podcast manufacturing firm and stated the Spotify approval course of can take only some minutes.

Several internet hosting platforms stated in interviews they didn’t have the power or want to vet all of the content material they host. “We don’t act as moderators,” stated Blubrry CEO Todd Cochrane, although it responds to takedown requests, citing the instance of eradicating measurement companies from a white supremacist group.

“When we get wind of something … we’d just get a bag of potato chips and turn the speed up to 1.5x and sit down and listen,” stated Mike Kadin, CEO of internet hosting platform RedCircle, which largely depends on consumer experiences or indicators like racist paintings. “Transcribing every piece of podcast content would be prohibitively expensive.”

Podcasting’s open, accessible nature is a key function of the medium, business professionals and researchers stated, however larger scrutiny and developments moderately instruments might result in extra funding in reviewing content material.

“We will react to any market changes here,” stated Daniel Adrian, normal counsel of podcast platform Acast. “We don’t know where this will end up.”

© Thomson Reuters 2022